Sandinista! A Conversation with Micajah Henley

David talks about The Clash and their classic triple album with the author of a new volume in the "33 1/3" series

I first met Micajah Henley when he invited me to guest on You Forgot One, the fun-and-edifying greatest-albums-ever podcast that he and co-host Rob Stone have been working on the last few years. An adjunct professor at Bluegrass Community & Technical College in Lexington, KY, where he teaches “Intro to Humanities” and “Peace Studies,” Micajah has now published his first book, an entry in Bloomsbury’s “33 1/3” series on The Clash’s epic triple album, Sandinista! I’m grateful that he was able to speak with me about the book, the band, and his podcast too. Learn more about Micajah’s book here.

DC: Micajah, would you share with our readers a little about the You Forgot One podcast and where it’s headed now in its final season?

MH: Sure. Rob and I have known each other for a long time, and, like all music fans, we are always sharing year end lists, best of lists, and so on. In 2020, we were discussing the latest Rolling Stone 500 albums list and sharing our best of 2020 lists when Rob joked about making a podcast. That led to us taking it upon ourselves to attempt our own list of 100 greatest albums of all-time. Knowing it's a fool's errand, we called it You Forgot One because we know that the conversations about lists are more often about what's left off rather than what made it on. So, each episode is either about one album or two albums that are in a head-to-head (Revolver vs Sgt. Pepper, Astral Weeks vs Moondance, etc.), and we typically have a guest on to help us discuss the album or pick which one is most deserving of inclusion. We've been lucky enough to have you on twice for albums by Elvis and by Johnny Cash, so thanks again for that.

DC: You write in Sandanista! that “the main objective of this book is to see if [the album] would be improved with a shorter track list.” You tackle that goal from a variety of viewpoints: I especially appreciated your pocket history of triple albums! But what your objective takes for granted is that a lot of people at the time, and since, have thought that a 36-track Sandanista! was just too damn long. Even Columbia Records thought so apparently, which is why they sent out the merely 12-track Sandanista Now! as a DJ promo. I loved the Clash in the day—I had Give ‘Em Enough Rope and everything after in real time—but I have to confess I’m one of those people who always thought Sandinista! was at least an album longer than it needed to be. So, I was excited to learn there’s a subculture of people who make their own dozen-cut versions of the album, then trade and debate them with friends. You include the track listings for several of those at the end of the book, and I’ve been playing around with those most of the summer. (I think I enjoyed critic Elizabeth Nelson’s version the best.) Of course, these days, dumping three dozen tracks is a strategy for getting more streams, not an artistic statement, let alone a prompt for personalization. I wonder if The Clash were ahead of their time here. I mean, do Zach Bryan or Taylor Swift fans do this? And leaving aside whether or not the album would have been better if only it were shorter, how do you think this way of using Sandanista! fits with the band’s musical and political aims for the project?

MH: You're wise to side with Elizabeth. She's one of our recurring guests on the podcast. In the case of Taylor Swift, yes, the Swifties have taken apart and reconstructed different versions of The Tortured Poets Department. Rolling Stone published a piece about Swifties who thought TTPD was too long, messy, and unnecessary. This, of course, is in reference to the Anthology version of the album that dropped only a few hours after the initial release. I think that caused a lot of confusion among fans and listeners over which album was the "definitive" version, especially in an era where she's rerecording the old albums and releasing them as the official "Taylor's Version." All this has led to fans making their own playlists and sharing them on streaming services. On the other hand, album of the year contender Diamond Jubilee by Cindy Lee is essentially the same length as TTPD. Music critics, in particular can't get enough of that album despite only being available on a janky, early aughts style geocities site where it can be downloaded for free or on YouTube. And despite not being on physical media (yet?), the site still promotes it as a triple album, interestingly enough. In general, or as far as I know, people have been more interested in just spending time with that album and using those downloads to put on their phones or burn onto CDs than they are picking it apart. And I think the difference is the intention of the artist. Swifties were confused or maybe even offended that they were being taken advantage of (as of today, Swift has released another version of the album on her website featuring one new demo that's available for 24 hours only) with the countless different versions of this album. Aging Swifites are potentially noticing Swift is a moneymaking mastermind as much as a great hook writer or storyteller. And Diamond Jubilee is an album that was so completely unimposing that was able to become a fascination in the wake of not only TTPD by the latest Beyonce record which also had a 2LP upon its release date followed by the "official" double LP release a couple of months later which was infuriating for those in the Beyhive who buy records.

All this is to say that The Clash's forgoing their royalties to release Sandinista! as a 3LP that was 3 for the price of 1 in the UK and 3 for a little less than a typical 2LP in the U.S. demonstrates that this was not a cash grab. I don't think there was any confusion over those motives. The only question became "Why is it so damn long?" Joe Strummer's joke was that after making their double LP they wanted to make something "triply" outrageous. But if it weren't affordable, then it would have defeated the purpose, so releasing it at a discounted price by agreeing not to receive royalties demonstrated their ethics and their politics. As for fans making their own versions of the album---be it tape, CD, or playlist---I think that lends itself to a punk ethos that is consistent with the Clash's beliefs. In a way, they were curators of various styles of music, as represented on the album. They had openers who were punk contemporaries, reggae artists, rappers, country singers, etc. And I think they knew their audience wouldn't love all of these different artists, but I think they knew they could potentially change someone's life, or at least their listening habits, in a way that was more accepting of other cultures and points of view. So to curate your own version of the album that spoke to you about world politics, the link between violence and poverty, and so on, then I think they were content with that.

DC: You place the Clash, and Joe Strummer particularly, in conversation with the Austrian socialist writer Ernst Fisher, and particularly his 1963 book The Necessity of Art. Fisher called for new forms of art to better deal with “new realities,” warning that “capitalism would eventually destroy man—or be overthrown.” You have a lot to say about Fisher’s ideas paralleling what the Clash were up to in their music, but briefly how does Fisher’s thinking begin to help us answer your central question about the album’s length?

MH: In his book, Fisher writes that for socialist art to be effective, it would need to embrace multiple cultures and go beyond even Tolstoy-style realism--who, of course, has published some lengthy works himself. And Sandinista! certainly does this by incorporating British music hall, reggae, dub, hip-hop, gospel, calypso, rockabilly, and R&B by way of New Orleans up to Detroit. For them to continue as a band, they couldn't just rely on the "punk" sound, or even The Clash sound, for that matter. That explains the multiple genres, but not necessarily the number of tracks. I think The Clash had no interest in writing novelty songs or adopting a certain style as some sort of gimmicky one-off, so naturally most of these genres are repeated throughout. Regardless, the popular critique for really any album of this size is that it's too indulgent. In which case, I cite Fisher who writes specifically about composers serving a social need but also needing to take pleasure in the work they're doing. The Clash had an unprecedented amount of freedom, with their manager Bernie Rhodes not with them at the time, and that allowed them to explore, experiment, and even make mistakes. Personally, I think there's value in that. Especially since punk rock, in my mind, succeeds most when it captures discovery and invention. And The Clash were exponentially better musicians than they were on the first LP by the time they made Sandinista!

DC: The Clash billed themselves in the day as “The Only Band that Matters.” But these days, if I’m just listening for fun and if I’m being honest, I’m a lot more likely to put on some Rancid. Your book made me wonder: Do the Clash matter anymore? Are their music and ethos being embraced by younger generations of listeners? The Clash remain immensely important to my own musical development. But I wonder if younger generations of listeners feel the same way.

MH: Speaking for myself, I didn't actually own my first Clash CD until after Strummer had died. So for young people growing up in the aughts who never had a hope and a prayer to see The Clash, they were still important and influential. There are reasons for that: the Bush administration, new CD reissues on shelves, skate culture (shops, parks, video games), or even the first RS 500 publication. However, I'm not sure Gen Z had the same level of interest despite growing up in the Trump era and the new vinyl reissues that came with the recent boom in LPs. "Should I Stay or Should I Go" was in the first season of Stranger Things, but that certainly didn't give them the same boost Kate Bush had when the show used "Running Up That Hill." Clearly, the subject matter in their songs is still relevant today. And kids are probably still more likely to be introduced to Victor Jara through their music than public school, but The Clash had a lot of anger, were all men, and hetero without really any androgyny, and young people don't seem to respond much to that anymore. Which is great for culture but maybe not so great for the legacy of The Clash. So I'm not sure what The Clash has to offer Gen Z or Gen Alpha. Regardless, because they're so canonized, I think they'll always have the affection of other artists, writers, and so on. Perhaps it'll take a Clash movie or limited series to turn them onto younger generations. Though I'm not sure that worked out so well for the Sex Pistols.

DC: Finally… What’s something you’ve read recently – music-related or otherwise – that’s really exciting you or speaking to you in some way?

MH: I just read a couple of short books from Bloomsbury's movie equivalent of the 33 1/3 series while I was at a music festival recently, but what I'm most excited about is a book I picked up recently but have yet to start reading. Desperately Seeking Something: A Memoir About Movies, Mothers, and Material Girls is the new book from Susan Seidleman who directed one of my favorite movies, Smithereens, which is sorta like a punk rock version of Fellini's Nights of of Cabiria that features Richard Hell and music from The Feelies. She also directed Desperately Seeking Susan with Madonna at the height of her material girl period. People kind of look down on the '80s in terms of movies, but it was a very exciting time for American independent cinema, especially for women. Directors like Seidleman, Lizzie Borden, Allison Anders, and even Kathrine Bigelow had a real punk aesthetic to their movies and even used punk musicians as actors frequently, so I'm really excited to crack that one open.

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